.....[insert thread title #987,543,234 here]......

He is a miner. Reading comprehension there bro.

I can pull out my certificates if you want.

Oh, I never asked griefers to take it easy on me. Just ask those who ganked me (ask Guillaume LeConquerant for a reference).

We miners are hard working individuals that ensure that there is a constant stream of minerals needed for ship production. However, there are many miners like me who feel that destruction is so important to our bottom line that we even welcome griefers to try to attack us for whatever purpose they like

Quoted for accuracy.

To the miners.

Oh, and one more thing. Tank your god damn mining ships. The Goons are freakin everywhere killing miner and yet some miners still decide to fit for max yield at the expense of defenses. Who's really at fault here for losing their own mining ship?

I thought you were better than this.

There you go :D

Well let's see: Would the mining ship have been blown up where it not for the criminal actions of the ganker?
Hm: Nope!

Well gee, that sort of suggest that the criminal is responsible, doesn't it? Whether a miner tanks his Hulk or not is irrelevant; a vulnerable target does not abrogate criminal responsibility. Technically the criminals are the ones who are responsible - not their victims - since, logically, the issue of "tanking your Hulk" would not even exist where it not for said criminals.

it is not a "chicken and egg" problem. It completely and 100% starts with the criminal, and fault rests upon their shoulders.

I mean, this is basic logic. I'm surprised so many EVE players have such a hard time with it... since EVE players spend a good deal of their time bragging about how smart they are for playing EVE....

Now, this isn't to say that someone shouldn't pay attention to their surroundings and protect themselves. However, at the end of the day, the argument that "it's your fault that someone broke into your house and stole your belongings because, after all, you own a house with valuable items inside" is ridiculous and would never pass in any court system. You don't like a rapist go unpunished simply because his victim "should have been paying better attention." Such ideas are ludicrous.

"Why is that?" you ask? Simple: In the real world, which EVE is nothing like by the way, people can only be held accountable for their own actions.

True, EVE is just a game. However, EVE is no longer filling a "niche" - EVE is now in the mainstream, and like it or not, the type of people who are being drawn to EVE are not the same sort of players who got into the game 3, 4, 8 years ago. CCP is going to either have to adapt to these new players (and secure more capital in the process), or it'll unnecessarily restrict itself to a very small player market, which will eventually exhaust itself.

*shrug*

@The Apostle and Justin Credulent

Interesting to see that two players that joined the game a couple of months ago have embarked on a crusade to change a game thats been played a certain way since 2003.

Considering EVE has been growing for almost a decade now and that I have had one gank attempt in the past 6 years on one of my haulers I would say its a none issue to all but a few.

We are talking about a handfull of systems in gal space. The vast bulk of high sec is business as usaual and ganks a rare thing.

I didn't realize we had managed to shut down all mining in the game. That's impressive even for us!

Let me guess...Riverini made up some more stuff about us?

Ok Mr 7 accounts.

EVEs core mechanics and idea should NOT change because miners are to lazy to align to a station and keep an eye on the overview if a combat ship is approaching them.

Let me guess, you are one of those people in real life that never does anything for fear of losing. Half of the fun of this game is that you may lose your 'stuff' at any point in time. Playing games without the potential of loss equals a massive waste of time. Even more of a waste of time then losing that ship you worked weeks to get into. PERIOD!


Slade

He's not joking about this. When the interdiction started I used to get daily threats from pubbies about reporting me for shooting them in high sec.

Any miner with his brain turned on will see a threat coming a mile away and gtfo.

So since im such a clueless noob and all my arguments are bullshit why dont you enlighten me?


So every profession in EVE should have risk involved except mining? Is that what you are saying?
Missioners can loose ships to if scrambled by a rat or some other mishap.
Should missions ships be invulnerable so they dont risk loosing them and start mass unsubs?

Honestly, the best advise I could give to someone that wants to mine and be safe... join a decent nullsec alliance and move out of empire. I've mined (I'm not afraid to admit it) in High, Low and Nullsec and mining in Nullsec was probably the safest I've been when it came to mining. The best belts need to be scanned down, which means the reds and neutrals need probes to find you and that gives you extra time to warp to a POS and safe up before they find you and make veldspar dust out of you.

Poor miners? How are they poor? Cut the crap man seriously.
And 3m/h might apply for starter characters that are a couple week old. Miners sit on their fat asses doing nothing and earn isk while watching a movie, reading a book or whatever they do. And just by paying just a tiny bit of attention they dont risk anything.
Rewards in highsec are already to high vs risk. Highsec should be nerfed not buffed.

But as many have said, yes doing minor changes to, for example insurance (cutting it in half if you are killed by Concord), is something that most players can accept.
Making miners immune to game mechanics is not something people will accept.
Deal with it, accept it, adapt or move on to another game. Period.

Not so nice to see you again, Lady GoDiveHer.

As usual, I think we would all appreciate it if you wrote your comments on toilet paper and stuck them to your face.

What statistics man? You keep claiming things without backing them up with proof.

Like the claim that EVE will die if CCP doesnt turn it into carebear land.

Also I am now convinced that your flawed viewpoint has run out of arguments. I cannot think of another reason why you would try to insult my intelligence.

The problem with this idea is botting. Unless CCP finds a way to curb botting (in highsec and nullsec,) making an area that would be 100% safe, even if it was ONLY a couple of systems, would cause mineral prices to crash and they're already too low. By creating areas that would be 100% safe all of the time, you'd also remove the risk portion of risk vs reward. As noted above, maybe it's just a balance issue when it really comes down too it. Remove or cut insurance based on sec status or if you were killed by CONCORD, it really is a decent idea. A corp mate mentioned the other day that if he used his car to blow something up, State Farm wouldn't cover the loss and he's right. I'd suggest a buff on mining barges / exhumers, but with the right tank, a Hulk can already sit in a nullsec belt and deal with BS Rats without issue and that was the whole point of them if I recall, no change needed there.

I had a really nice, well thought out response, but CCP's "New Forums" ate it. Aren't you glad?

Who is to say that the Hulk pilot doesn't have a logi pal to back him up? And I've seen plenty of friendly high-sec corps willing to help a miner out. If the Hulk is not alone, and there is a plan in place (and a strategy that adapts accordingly), a Hulk can surely survive the 2x Alpha Brutix.